openid on melkjug

Yes, this is something we should support and as Josh says I think all
that is missing is a bit of ui.

I don't think there needs to be a separate manage account page at this
point, there is already a reset password link on your
"home" page where your presets are listed. IMO a link near the reset
password link for users with no associated openid that triggers a
short workflow should be fine.

Side note, openid signup is trivially broken in the trunk as anil
mentioned, we need to fix that before we deploy.

- Luke

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it at http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342
. Feel free to ticket any other issues you have there or just let me
know and I can do it if you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be associated
with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to come up with
the UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage your account' type
page, so maybe this should either wait until it needs to grow one,
or maybe we could simply add an 'add your openid' to the user home
page. Thoughts?
Josh
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I can't
associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply try to
login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then have
you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

Philip Ashlock

2009-02-23 16:40:40 UTC

Looks like I never clicked send for this last week:
---

I documented some examples of UI for associating an openid with an
existing account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/tags/associateopenid/

and found a few cases of associating an account with an existing openid
(eg if someone uses openid to create an account):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/415701438/in/set-72157600010029792/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/425802569/in/set-72157600010029792/

*Regarding openid for mobile:*

* skitch has an example of using a proxy account for an openid so
you can use a username/password for the desktop app (not the ideal
solution considering it breaks the utility of openid) -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/3295629585/
* The OpenID mobile experience, part II
<http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/17/the-openid-mobile-experience-part-ii/>
* Valimo Wireless Introduces Mobile Authentication for OpenID
<http://www.valimo.com/news_and_events/16-02-2009/valimo-wireless-introduces-mobile-authentication-openid>
- February 16, 2009

-phil

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it
at http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342. Feel free to ticket
any other issues you have there or just let me know and I can do it if
you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be associated
with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to come up with the
UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage your account' type page,
so maybe this should either wait until it needs to grow one, or maybe
we could simply add an 'add your openid' to the user home page. Thoughts?
Josh
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I
can't associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply
try to login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then
have you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

Luke Tucker

2009-02-23 16:47:45 UTC

Thanks Phil!

I also thought of a couple of related cases which are not yet covered:

* You cannot associate a password with an username that was created
with an openid (restricted to only openid login)
* You cannot change your openid

- Luke

Post by Philip Ashlock
---
I documented some examples of UI for associating an openid with an
existing account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/tags/associateopenid/
and found a few cases of associating an account with an existing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/415701438/in/set-72157600010029792/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/425802569/in/set-72157600010029792/
skitch has an example of using a proxy account for an openid so you
can use a username/password for the desktop app (not the ideal
solution considering it breaks the utility of openid) - http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/3295629585/
The OpenID mobile experience, part II
Valimo Wireless Introduces Mobile Authentication for OpenID -
February 16, 2009
-phil

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it at http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342
. Feel free to ticket any other issues you have there or just let
me know and I can do it if you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be
associated with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to
come up with the UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage your
account' type page, so maybe this should either wait until it needs
to grow one, or maybe we could simply add an 'add your openid' to
the user home page. Thoughts?
Josh
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Philip Ashlock
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I can't
associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply try to
login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then
have you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

Philip Ashlock

2009-02-23 17:15:07 UTC

Post by Luke Tucker
Thanks Phil!

Do you mean "not covered" by those case studies or not covered by melkjug?

Post by Luke Tucker
* You cannot associate a password with an username that was created
with an openid (restricted to only openid login)
* You cannot change your openid

The model for this is not to simply change an OpenID, but to add an
additional OpenID (and is covered by a couple of the examples I
documented). If for some reason you'd like to delete an OpenID, you can
do that as well, but you wouldn't change one as you might change your
email address. The ability to rely on multiple different IDs and
providers is one of the core concepts of the OpenID model. If you're
storing OpenIDs the same way you would a normal username, you might want
to reconsider because they should really be provided as a many-to-one
relationship in a database.

-phil

Post by Luke Tucker
- Luke

Post by Philip Ashlock
---
I documented some examples of UI for associating an openid with an
existing account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/tags/associateopenid/
and found a few cases of associating an account with an existing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/415701438/in/set-72157600010029792/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/425802569/in/set-72157600010029792/
*Regarding openid for mobile:*
* skitch has an example of using a proxy account for an openid so
you can use a username/password for the desktop app (not the
ideal solution considering it breaks the utility of openid) -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/3295629585/
* The OpenID mobile experience, part II
<http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/17/the-openid-mobile-experience-part-ii/>
* Valimo Wireless Introduces Mobile Authentication for OpenID
<http://www.valimo.com/news_and_events/16-02-2009/valimo-wireless-introduces-mobile-authentication-openid>
- February 16, 2009
-phil

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it
at http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342. Feel free to ticket
any other issues you have there or just let me know and I can do it
if you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be associated
with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to come up with
the UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage your account' type
page, so maybe this should either wait until it needs to grow one,
or maybe we could simply add an 'add your openid' to the user home
page. Thoughts?
Josh
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I
can't associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply
try to login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then
have you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

Luke Tucker

2009-02-23 17:46:41 UTC

Post by Luke Tucker
Thanks Phil!
I also thought of a couple of related cases which are not yet

Do you mean "not covered" by those case studies or not covered by melkjug?

Not presently supported by the melkjug ui.

Post by Luke Tucker
* You cannot associate a password with an username that was created
with an openid (restricted to only openid login)
* You cannot change your openid

The model for this is not to simply change an OpenID, but to add an
additional OpenID (and is covered by a couple of the examples I
documented). If for some reason you'd like to delete an OpenID, you
can do that as well, but you wouldn't change one as you might change
your email address. The ability to rely on multiple different IDs
and providers is one of the core concepts of the OpenID model. If
you're storing OpenIDs the same way you would a normal username, you
might want to reconsider because they should really be provided as a
many-to-one relationship in a database.

This would probably would take more shuffling to support than adding
one to an existing account, but still not very difficult.

I get the having-many-identities part of OpenID, but I guess I only
understand it in the context of different identities for different
contexts / that those identities can be fused and split as you see fit
using using a proxy providers and so forth?

I guess I hear you to a certain extent here, but within one
application context I'm not sure I totally follow... Can you give me
an example of a specific reason for having more than one openid
assigned to a single user simultaneously in melkjug?

- Luke

Post by Luke Tucker
- Luke

Post by Philip Ashlock
---
I documented some examples of UI for associating an openid with an
existing account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/tags/associateopenid/
and found a few cases of associating an account with an existing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/415701438/in/set-72157600010029792/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/425802569/in/set-72157600010029792/
skitch has an example of using a proxy account for an openid so
you can use a username/password for the desktop app (not the ideal
solution considering it breaks the utility of openid) - http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/3295629585/
The OpenID mobile experience, part II
Valimo Wireless Introduces Mobile Authentication for OpenID -
February 16, 2009
-phil

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it at http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342
. Feel free to ticket any other issues you have there or just let
me know and I can do it if you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be
associated with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to
come up with the UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage your
account' type page, so maybe this should either wait until it
needs to grow one, or maybe we could simply add an 'add your
openid' to the user home page. Thoughts?
Josh
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Philip Ashlock
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I
can't associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply
try to login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then
have you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

Christopher Patterson

2009-02-23 18:10:53 UTC

One good example, although hopefully not a common use case:

One of your OpenID providers might be experiencing downtime (planned
or otherwise), but you'd still like to be able to access sites.

Chris

Post by Luke Tucker

Post by Luke Tucker
Thanks Phil!

Do you mean "not covered" by those case studies or not covered by melkjug?

Not presently supported by the melkjug ui.

Post by Luke Tucker
* You cannot associate a password with an username that was
created with an openid (restricted to only openid login)
* You cannot change your openid

The model for this is not to simply change an OpenID, but to add an
additional OpenID (and is covered by a couple of the examples I
documented). If for some reason you'd like to delete an OpenID, you
can do that as well, but you wouldn't change one as you might
change your email address. The ability to rely on multiple
different IDs and providers is one of the core concepts of the
OpenID model. If you're storing OpenIDs the same way you would a
normal username, you might want to reconsider because they should
really be provided as a many-to-one relationship in a database.

This would probably would take more shuffling to support than adding
one to an existing account, but still not very difficult.
I get the having-many-identities part of OpenID, but I guess I only
understand it in the context of different identities for different
contexts / that those identities can be fused and split as you see
fit using using a proxy providers and so forth?
I guess I hear you to a certain extent here, but within one
application context I'm not sure I totally follow... Can you give
me an example of a specific reason for having more than one openid
assigned to a single user simultaneously in melkjug?
- Luke

Post by Luke Tucker
- Luke

Post by Philip Ashlock
---
I documented some examples of UI for associating an openid with
an existing account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/tags/associateopenid/
and found a few cases of associating an account with an existing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/415701438/in/set-72157600010029792/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/425802569/in/set-72157600010029792/
• skitch has an example of using a proxy account for an openid
so you can use a username/password for the desktop app (not the
ideal solution considering it breaks the utility of openid) - http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/3295629585/
• The OpenID mobile experience, part II
• Valimo Wireless Introduces Mobile Authentication for OpenID -
February 16, 2009
-phil

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it at http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342
. Feel free to ticket any other issues you have there or just
let me know and I can do it if you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be
associated with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to
come up with the UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage
your account' type page, so maybe this should either wait until
it needs to grow one, or maybe we could simply add an 'add your
openid' to the user home page. Thoughts?
Josh
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I
can't associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply
try to login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then
have you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

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To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to melkjug-***@lists.openplans.org. Please contact melkjug-dev-manager-ZwoEplunGu1pszqg2B6Wd0B+***@public.gmane.org for questions.

Philip Ashlock

2009-02-24 22:09:20 UTC

exactly right Chris.

and I think there's more of a chance of this happening if people use
delegation or rely on more grassroots providers. The advantage of
delegation is that you can use whatever URL you might have write access
over to redirect to your provider, but it's less likely that the URL
people have control over will be as stable as a major web app or big
openid provider. Part of the underlying principle of openid is that it's
decentralized and distributed so that you don't have to rely on big name
providers, and you're not screwed if one your providers gets hacked or
censored, and you're not locked out if the provider you've got running
off the old OLPC in your closet goes down.

phil

Post by Christopher Patterson
One of your OpenID providers might be experiencing downtime (planned
or otherwise), but you'd still like to be able to access sites.
Chris

Post by Luke Tucker

Post by Luke Tucker
Thanks Phil!

Do you mean "not covered" by those case studies or not covered by melkjug?

Not presently supported by the melkjug ui.

Post by Luke Tucker
* You cannot associate a password with an username that was created
with an openid (restricted to only openid login)
* You cannot change your openid

The model for this is not to simply change an OpenID, but to add an
additional OpenID (and is covered by a couple of the examples I
documented). If for some reason you'd like to delete an OpenID, you
can do that as well, but you wouldn't change one as you might change
your email address. The ability to rely on multiple different IDs
and providers is one of the core concepts of the OpenID model. If
you're storing OpenIDs the same way you would a normal username, you
might want to reconsider because they should really be provided as a
many-to-one relationship in a database.

This would probably would take more shuffling to support than adding
one to an existing account, but still not very difficult.
I get the having-many-identities part of OpenID, but I guess I only
understand it in the context of different identities for different
contexts / that those identities can be fused and split as you see
fit using using a proxy providers and so forth?
I guess I hear you to a certain extent here, but within one
application context I'm not sure I totally follow... Can you give me
an example of a specific reason for having more than one openid
assigned to a single user simultaneously in melkjug?
- Luke

Post by Luke Tucker
- Luke

Post by Philip Ashlock
---
I documented some examples of UI for associating an openid with an
existing account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/tags/associateopenid/
and found a few cases of associating an account with an existing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/415701438/in/set-72157600010029792/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/425802569/in/set-72157600010029792/
• skitch has an example of using a proxy account for an openid
so you can use a username/password for the desktop app (not the
ideal solution considering it breaks the utility of openid) -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philaestheta/3295629585/
• The OpenID mobile experience, part II
• Valimo Wireless Introduces Mobile Authentication for OpenID
- February 16, 2009
-phil

Post by Joshua Bronson
Hey Phil,
Thanks for the report. I've ticketed it at
http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/342. Feel free to ticket
any other issues you have there or just let me know and I can do
it if you prefer.
I think it shouldn't be too hard to allow an openid to be
associated with an existing account logicwise; we'd just have to
come up with the UI for it. Melkjug currently has no 'manage your
account' type page, so maybe this should either wait until it
needs to grow one, or maybe we could simply add an 'add your
openid' to the user home page. Thoughts?
Josh
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Philip Ashlock
I think the problem I've had with OpenID on melkjug is that I
can't associate an OpenID with my existing account. If i simply
try to login with openid, I receive the error message "unable to
authenticate". It seems that I'm able to create a new account by
simply using openID which is awesome as it's common for many
services to force you to first create a normal account and then
have you associate an openid with it.
Should i ticket this somewhere?
-phil

--
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To unsubscribe send an email with subject "unsubscribe" to

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Luke Tucker

2009-03-11 16:22:16 UTC

For ref, I also ticket associating multiple openids:

http://trac.openplans.org/melkjug/ticket/384

- Luke

Post by Philip Ashlock
exactly right Chris.
and I think there's more of a chance of this happening if people use
delegation or rely on more grassroots providers. The advantage of
delegation is that you can use whatever URL you might have write
access over to redirect to your provider, but it's less likely that
the URL people have control over will be as stable as a major web
app or big openid provider. Part of the underlying principle of
openid is that it's decentralized and distributed so that you don't
have to rely on big name providers, and you're not screwed if one
your providers gets hacked or censored, and you're not locked out if
the provider you've got running off the old OLPC in your closet goes
down.
phil

Post by Christopher Patterson
One of your OpenID providers might be experiencing downtime
(planned or otherwise), but you'd still like to be able to access
sites.
Chris

Post by Luke Tucker

Post by Luke Tucker
Thanks Phil!

Do you mean "not covered" by those case studies or not covered by melkjug?

Not presently supported by the melkjug ui.

Post by Luke Tucker
* You cannot associate a password with an username that was
created with an openid (restricted to only openid login)
* You cannot change your openid

The model for this is not to simply change an OpenID, but to add
an additional OpenID (and is covered by a couple of the examples
I documented). If for some reason you'd like to delete an OpenID,
you can do that as well, but you wouldn't change one as you might
change your email address. The ability to rely on multiple
different IDs and providers is one of the core concepts of the
OpenID model. If you're storing OpenIDs the same way you would a
normal username, you might want to reconsider because they should
really be provided as a many-to-one relationship in a database.

This would probably would take more shuffling to support than
adding one to an existing account, but still not very difficult.
I get the having-many-identities part of OpenID, but I guess I
only understand it in the context of different identities for
different contexts / that those identities can be fused and split
as you see fit using using a proxy providers and so forth?
I guess I hear you to a certain extent here, but within one
application context I'm not sure I totally follow... Can you give
me an example of a specific reason for having more than one openid
assigned to a single user simultaneously in melkjug?
- Luke